"International competition. First Prize. Built."
下为有方专访Barozzi Veiga创始合伙人Alberto Veiga。简洁清晰的回复与其建筑的空间质感有着某种程度的相似，让我们印象尤深的一句，是“建筑师要对自己希望实现的目标保持警惕”。
As a team of roughly 25 people, how many on going projects do you usually have at one time? Are you happy with the team's current workload?
ALBERTO VEIGA 工作室人数及前期设计的数量，取决于我和Fabrizio 亲自跟进项目的精力。我们会亲自参与项目的各个阶段，这是我们理解建筑的方式。这也导致了，我们有时必须限制参与项目或竞赛的数量，常见的情况是同时推进三到四个设计。
The size of the studio and the number of pre-projects always depends on the ability to personally follow the projects. Both Fabrizio and I are involved in every phase, because it is the way we understand architecture. That forces us to limit sometimes the number of projects or competitions we do. Usually, between competitions and projects under development, we have about three or four projects at the same time.
We try to have an adequate balance between the workload and the team, although this is not always easy to achieve.
While being famous for your award-winning submissions to architectural competitions, have you ever counted how many competitions did you participate in, since the firm's establishment in 2004? And how many projects have you won?
ALBERTO VEIGA 在事务所最初的15年，我们参与了超过一百个竞赛，并赢得了其中的四分之一。我们的经验深受这种赢得项目的方式的影响，目前正在建设的绝大多数作品，也都是竞赛胜出的结果。
During the first fifteen years of our practice we developed proposals for more than a hundred competitions and we won about one quarter of them. Our experience is closely linked to this process of gaining projects and most of the architectures we are building are outcomes of competitions that we have won in the past years.
Competitions were fundamental at the beginning of our career as architects and, still nowadays, we believe that they are one of the most efficient tools for the development and construction of architectures in the various countries. Of course, other paths are possible; we had the skills and the luck to collect a few results through this system and competitions started to be part of our working life since the beginning of our office.
When doing overseas competitions, how do you ensure a precise understanding of the site's history and specificity?
ALBERTO VEIGA 每当去项目场地的时候，我们都会从各个维度去理解这里的语境，比如它的结构、象征、历史层面，以及场地的特性和潜力。有时候，对于一个陌生的场地，你反而能用一种未受干扰的视角去理解它，这有利于对其中核心要素的捕捉——在平时，这一核心可能会被场地的复杂日常所掩盖。
When visiting a project area, we try to understand the context in which we are going to work, the presence of structural, symbolic and historical aspects, the characteristics and the potentialities of the site. Sometimes when you do not know a certain place, you have the advantage to look at it with a certain unspoiled view that make you notice main aspects that, in the everyday life, remain holed up in the complexity of the place.
Since the beginning we have been jumping from one site to another, thinking about what our projects could offer to places and people that we did not know. Also due to the background of the office, formed by people from very different places, we were never afraid to compete in different countries.
Our interpretation of the specificity of the place suggests which are the most important elements to be reinterpreted in our the project and the attitude of the new building with respect to the context. Moreover, we also like to think about the hidden unexpected qualities of a certain place. As architects, we think that it is really important to question the kind of architecture you aim to build and the condition of doing overseas competitions has been fundamental in the definition of the way we are working nowadays.
The manifesto 'A Sentimental Monumentality' shows your strong interest in understanding the richness and singularity of each place, and the desire to establish your project's specific sentimental relationship with its environment. Why is this so important to your design?
ALBERTO VEIGA 每个建筑都属于一个特定的场地，所以我们总是希望寻找到建筑与场地之间的那个特定关系。新建筑由此得以成为场地的一部分。
Each architecture belongs to a certain place and, for this reason, we always seek a specific relationship with it, in a way in which the new architecture can become part of the place itself.
Since the beginning of our research and practice in architecture, we have been working in very different areas. This variety strongly influenced our approach and shaped the need to define each time an architecture that is specific to a certain site and, at the same time, that expresses a certain autonomy.
在2016年威尼斯建筑双年展主展场，我们有幸将这个想法通过A Sentimental Monumentality这一作品及宣言表达出来。在这里，受到希腊建筑师皮吉奥尼斯（Dimitris Pikionis）关于其作品“雅典卫城之路”的一篇文章的启发，我们将“sentimental”解读为一种由感性出发、与场地建立特殊联系的方式。
As said, during the 2016 Venice Biennale we had the occasion to present these thoughts through the manifesto 'A Sentimental Monumentality', where 'sentimental'—which we discovered in an article by Pikionis about his famous project for the ascent path to the Acropolis of Athens—refers to our attention to the specificity of the places, to a sentimental based relation to the place where the architecture is situated.
The challenge to define an architecture that belongs to a place and simultaneously to all the places is at the base of our projects.
And what exactly can architects do to truly grasp the site's tone, in your understanding?
ALBERTO VEIGA 由于其历经的转变和构成城市的丰富肌理，城市的历史中心区以及边缘地带，都可以是非常复杂的。
Both historic centres and marginal areas can be very complex places due to the string of transformations and to the different layers which constitute the city.
In our approach, we aim to grasp the specificity of a place reducing it to a single and main idea, which, in our interpretation of the area, it is the most important feature that characterizes the place. This can be seen in our preliminary sketches which, with few lines, represent the first idea of the place and sometimes a kind of desire with respect to the new architecture.
有方 《感性的纪念性》一文中有两个重要术语：“纪念性”（monumentality）和“形式的自治”（autonomy of form）。你们对二者的具体理解，是什么？
There are two important terms that you've mentioned in 'A Sentimental Monumentality': 'monumentality' and 'autonomy of form'. What's your exact understanding of these two concepts?
ALBERTO VEIGA “纪念性”之于我们，是指建筑能强化、凸显场所的公共与文明属性的能力。同时，它也指向建筑的纪念碑式的属性，即在特定场地中拥有的自治性。而纪念性的结果，是一种“原始的、基本的建筑”（primitive architecture）：在独立表意的同时，能创造出场地过去、现在和未来的连接。
The idea of 'monumentality' refers to an architecture which highlights and dignifies the public and civic nature of a place. Moreover, it refers to a certain monumental character of a building, which means its autonomy with respect to a specific context. The result is a primitive architecture, able to have a meaning by itself and to generate links between the past, present and future of the place.
During the 2016 Venice Biennale, our installation took up the more evident and specific character of the imposing columns structuring the existing building of the Corderie, simply placing a new more abstract column: a specific element for that place but with its own formal autonomy—an archetype—which was speaking above all of verticality and mass. It was an object that belongs to the place but also it was trying to steer away from it.
The archetypal nature of that installation became even more explicit when we rearranged the same column in a totally different context, within a vast landscape of the Spanish hinterland, where it reopened completely new relationships with the context.
有方 在David Cohn 2013年的采访中你曾提及，“在最近的竞赛中，我们经常简化设计的呈现方式，甚至只以黑白呈现”。7年后，这仍是你们竞赛中的习惯吗？这一倾向是出于什么原因？
In David Cohn's 2013 interview, you once mentioned that 'In more recent competitions, we often simply work in black and white'. Is this still your preference in more recent years? What's the rationale behind this decision?
ALBERTO VEIGA 我们画图的风格，取决于我们在不同竞赛或项目中想营造的氛围、想实现的建筑。有时我们对黑白灰更得心应手，其他时候则并非如此。对我们来说，图纸是帮助我们理清思路的工具，它从来不是设计过程的结果本身。
The images we make depend on the type of atmosphere we want to achieve and the type of architecture we propose in each competition or in each project. There have been times in our career when we were more comfortable with black and white images and other times when we were not. But it is important to say that for us images are a tool that helps us to discover what we want to do. We never understand them as the result of a process.
Sometimes you use one single material in your projects, and one can easily perceive a strong sense of purity in the space that you create. So is simple and purity the feeling that you wish to convey via your projects? Why or why not?
ALBERTO VEIGA 我们的项目常常坐落在非常复杂、脆弱的城市环境中，因此我们希望用简洁明了的元素和空间形态去回应。
We often work in very complex and fragile urban situations which we try to solve with simple solutions, few elements and clear spatial configurations.
A recent example of this way of working is the Tanzhaus Zürich, perhaps the most experimental project we built. The site is located in an area undergoing transformations and its strong character is given by the presence of the river.
During the competition, the first suggestions for the definition of a new building came from the long slabs of the baths along the river bank. We decided to take advantage of this condition and to strengthen the public path along the river. Working with the topography, we fit the building into the slope, creating a riverside garden and a long terrace, in analogy to the rhythm of the public bathrooms. The intervention therefore become 'just a facade', a sort of infrastructure that creates a new public urban setting, also due to the radical decision to move the entrance to the dance school along the riverside pedestrian path.
The building resolves the relationship with its surroundings through the definition of the main elevation and the whole architecture is defined on the basis of the logic of construction of the facade. The use of a particular insulating concrete allowed the design of a mono-material elevation and made possible the construction of an “almost primitive” architecture.
The building is the structure. A concrete structure without any insulation, which, at the same time, protects and characterizes the building. The frames of the windows are attached directly to the concrete, without involving any other insulation materials and taking full advantage of the a few essential materials. The whole project is solved by a single detail.
After completing award-winning public projects such as Szczecin Philharmonic Hall, Bündner Kunstmuseum Chur, and Musée cantonal des Beaux-Arts Lausanne, what's your current understanding of public project's 'obligation' to its city? Is there any principle that you wish to obey, when designing public projects?
ALBERTO VEIGA 在项目深化的过程中，公共空间始终是我们希望强调的元素。
In the development of our projects we always try to highlight the public space as the most important element of our intervention.
This sometimes has been achieved by reducing the footprint of the building (organizing the program vertically) and leaving the maximum open public space possible as in the case of the Bündner Kunstmuseum in Chur. Some other times has been done using the new architectures to define new recognizable public space, as in the case of the Musée cantonal des Beaux-Arts Lausanne, where the architecture become the frame of the new urban square of the Art District of the city. Sometimes, as in the case of the Tanzhaus Zürich, the public space has been enhanced and transformed considering the new architecture a sort of infrastructure, an element that enables a new public area to be generated on its roof and that connects the existing itineraries at different levels that intertwine along the river bank of the city.
Could you please share with us one or two architects that have influenced you the most? And what are their specific influences on your design?
ALBERTO VEIGA 我们喜欢好的建筑。基于此，有很多建筑师都深受我们喜爱，涉及不同时期，不同风格。像西格德·劳伦兹、卡洛·斯卡帕和阿尔瓦罗·西扎，我们都很喜欢。
We like the good architecture. In that sense there are many architects that we like. From different times and with different styles. Names such as Sigurd Lewerentz, Carlo Scarpa, or Alvaro Siza are always in our minds.
采访 / 原源 翻译 / 黄恺（实习生）、原源
视觉 / 李茜雅 校对 / 原源