专访 | 汤姆·梅恩：让我着迷的建筑理念

汤姆·梅恩（Thom Mayne），2005年普利兹克建筑奖得主，曾担任美国前总统奥巴马美术和人文委员会成员，其事务所墨菲西思是较早在中国展开实践的国际团队。什么是让他着迷的“项目设计中自发生成的‘建筑性时刻’”？对景观增进（augmented landscape）、大地填充（earth occupation）、复合形态（combinatory form）等理路，在近年又有哪些探索？下为有方独家视频专访及全文，关于梅恩关注的建筑理念。

有方  在接受Yoshio Futagawa采访时您曾提及，在项目设计中常有一些在您控制之外、自发生成的“建筑性时刻”（GA 2010, 42）。可否请您更细致地谈谈它们？这些偶发性元素，来自哪里？

梅恩  我着迷于由系统叠加产生的建筑复杂性。它来自于一个过程，一种方法论，是与我无法解释的、能产生机会的行为有关。这是我们个人创作过程的内在原因。成果与偶发行为有关，但其重点在事物间的关系而非事物本身。我认为对很多建筑的讨论，都是从事物本身的角度出发，但我对事物之间的关系更感兴趣——它直接与城市的思维模式相联系，而并非与一个建筑本身；都市主义是建筑之间的连接关系。

I’m fascinated with the complexity that architecture represents and it comes from overlaying systems. And it comes from a process, a methodology, which has to do with something that can produce chance behaviour and I can’t explain that to you, because that’s going to be something that‘s within our own private process. The output has to do with chance behaviour, but its focused on relationships versus things. I think so much of architecture is talked about in terms of objects, and we’re interested in the relationship of objects, which is directly connected to an urban kind of thinking, versus an architecture - urbanism as a connection of architectures.

我感兴趣的是事物与事物之间的关系，而不是事物本身。我着迷于这个过程是如何允许我们发明一些自己无法预料的事物。这与行走在一个历史悠久的城市中的感受类似，一个发展了数世纪的城市，会让我沉迷于其中不同事物间的互动与关系，而不是一些特定的建筑。

And it’s the relationship between things versus the things, or only the things. And I’ve been fascinated with how. this process allows us to invent things that we can’t anticipate, and it would be parallel to walking through an historical city, that’s been developed over centuries, and the types of interactions that take place which I find the most interesting, versus the purposeful ones.

对于源自轴线和形式的构筑物，我们已经找到了复制的方式，同时将之在城市中发展出了一种人性化的东西；每个事物都是独特的，并且数量很多。就像当你走过我们的巨人集团项目，你将会发现数以百计的独特之处——没有任何一个地方是重复的，当你走过它们，它们都是独一无二的，并且与此地的景观和建筑联系着。就像在大自然中步行穿过一片森林，万物相连，且不仅是表面上的联系。环境的不断变化带来了多个层次上的不同体验，也增添了丰富性。

Axis and formal constructs, etc., that we’ve found ways of replicating, that again develop a particular kind of humanness in the city… things that precisely because you haven’t seen them before, represent the uniqueness of this thing, and they’re multiple. And again, you could walk end to end on Giant and find hundreds of these conditions. Nothing’s repeatable, they’re all kind of unique as you walk through it. And it’s also connected to the relationship of landscape/building; like nature, it’s a walk through a forest, and it‘s never literal. There are continual changes in the environment on multiple levels of the experience that gives it its richness.

有方  您在中国的第一个项目，巨人集团中心，探讨着景观增进、大地填充、复合形态“landscape augmentation、earth occupation、combinatory form”这三条理路。在巨人项目结束后的这7年，您对它们的探索有哪些新的动向或改变？

梅恩  在类型学和形态学上，景观增进（augmented landscape）和大地填充（earth occupation）这两条理论线索可以创造出一种新的混合体，它不再是传统意义上的景观或者建筑。在我们七年前的巨人集团中心项目中，我们将这些理念想法具体地实现出来，让人们得以去体验这些思路。

Yes absolutely, the relationship between augmented landscape and earth occupation, again, would be one of the bases of the project that we talked about earlier, in terms of typology and morphology and finding a new hybrid of something that’s neither landscape nor architecture in traditional terms. And as an architect, we finally concretize our ideas and you can make an evaluation whether there’s a relationship between the thing you’re experiencing perceptually and our conceptualization of it.

某种程度上，“七年”并不是一个很长的时间段。七年后，我们仍然在推进这些项目和理念，它们不会按月份或者年度被取代、替换。我们仍在你提到的这个广阔的前提——景观增进和复合形式的组合过程——之下工作，因为它关系着对建筑面临的复杂活动和大型架构的组织问题。

Seven years isn’t a very long time, and we’re absolutely still working on those projects, and they’re not going to be replaced on a monthly or yearly schedule. We’re absolutely still working with this broad premise that you talk about, in terms of landscape augmentation and the combinatory procedure of producing organization, because it’s about organizing complex activities and large scale enterprises that architecture deals with.

录像 | Jasmine Park

文字整理 | Nicole Meyer、Jaclyn Rusher、Carolyn Ng

文字及视频整理 | 沈璐妍、王亚珂

采编 | 原源

剪辑 | 赵筱雅

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